Why I don't like Perks
Deathpact
Member Posts: 29
Hello Everyone !
I don't like perks !
I think they are useless in making the game more fun and the runs more purposeful
I mean the fighting in space and exploring is by no means more fun with a high end ship/ pilot than without.
The perks system just feels like grinding and an easy / fake way to make the game last longer with the same content.
It is not in the Roguelike spirit.
What Roguelikes are about is git gud if you want to go further and the learning curve / difficulty needs to be balanced accordingly. You don't get to go further if you keep sucking at the game just because you played enough to amass enough gold to make the game too easy for your ship (not for yourself)
So in the beggining because you are bad and your ship is bad and after a wile the first levels feel too simple because you got better and your ship too.
I believe it make the game's balance less interesting / Dynamic. Instead of balancing the ennemies VS players skill it has to be balanced vs the perks too. So without perks it might be impossible to win wile it could feel too simple with full perks...
I think Perks are lost opportunity for ship equipment diversity : The sensor upgrade that lets you have more info on the map could be a bonus you pick up and install on your shield. The Relations with GB could be gotten through missions/ saving their ships from an attack etc... Having room for one more secondary weapon could be made during the run in a service station etc...
I don't like perks !
I think they are useless in making the game more fun and the runs more purposeful
I mean the fighting in space and exploring is by no means more fun with a high end ship/ pilot than without.
The perks system just feels like grinding and an easy / fake way to make the game last longer with the same content.
It is not in the Roguelike spirit.
What Roguelikes are about is git gud if you want to go further and the learning curve / difficulty needs to be balanced accordingly. You don't get to go further if you keep sucking at the game just because you played enough to amass enough gold to make the game too easy for your ship (not for yourself)
So in the beggining because you are bad and your ship is bad and after a wile the first levels feel too simple because you got better and your ship too.
I believe it make the game's balance less interesting / Dynamic. Instead of balancing the ennemies VS players skill it has to be balanced vs the perks too. So without perks it might be impossible to win wile it could feel too simple with full perks...
I think Perks are lost opportunity for ship equipment diversity : The sensor upgrade that lets you have more info on the map could be a bonus you pick up and install on your shield. The Relations with GB could be gotten through missions/ saving their ships from an attack etc... Having room for one more secondary weapon could be made during the run in a service station etc...
2
Comments
However, I think we should look at one particular influence of Everspace's development.
One of the games that influenced Everspace is known as Rogue: Legacy, a 2D fantasy hack'n'slash roguelike platformer experience. At first it sounds like the only thing in common with this game is that it is a roguelike, but it goes beyond that.
Through the game of Rogue: Legacy, the player collects Coins from a Castle and uses tem to acquire new artisans, classes, and upgrades. These coins must be spent before the next run, as any that are held onto when entering the Castle again will vanish. Enhancement-like items are acquired through challenges within the Castle's walls, aiding the player further for delving into it's secrets.
The more the player unlocks, the more the player is capable of doing in any given run. This diversifies the game and builds up to an all-powerful character that is armed to the teeth.
Everspace uses a similar mechanic of progression. I have been thoroughly playtesting the experience and can assure you the game is beatable without any Perks on Hard mode with at least the Interceptor and the Scout. (Gunship is very difficult without Perks, but I'm getting close and am confident those more skilled than myself could accomplish this feat.) I mention this to signify that, technically, Perks don't have to be obtained in order to complete the game. They are perks (literally) that add to your successive runs, not requirements.
Putting the time and energy into the game to unlock all of the powerful Perks, Blueprints, and Enhancements does create more options for the player, opening up possibilities and creating an ease of access to areas too difficult before. I feel like this is healthy game design, as it directly rewards the player for their commitment.
Something Rogue: Legacy did not have was Difficulty Selection. For a more challenging experience in Everspace, you can choose Hard mode. Or, if things are too difficult even from the very beginning, you can choose Easy mode. This is not a very roguelike mechanic either, but it's sure nice to have.
Furthermore, if the game scaled it's difficulty along with how many Perks the player has, it's hard to say there's any real progression at all. If the player ship gains 5% more hullpoints, and all the enemies deal 5% more damage because of this change, is there really a difference?
Everspace Perks were designed and implemented the way they are because they are meant to make a difference, helping the player progress.
All in all, I think this mechanic is a matter of preference. Similar to you, I'm a huge advocate of the "git gud" design presented by more traditional roguelikes like FTL, Enter the Gungeon and Risk of Rain. But I enjoy Everspace because it brings fourth a progressive system that allows the player to "level up" in specific areas of their choosing to benefit them completely. And everyone loves leveling up.
All in all, if you enjoy gittin gud, you can do that in Everspace. If you enjoy leveling up and opening up possiblities, you can do that in Everspace, too.
What if Perks always started blank every run, but were purchased at the end of every Sector? Costs of various Perks would have to be altered, but I think this presents solutions to some of the current progression issues and could do a lot of good by shaping your playthrough EVERY RUN.
What are your thoughts?
Having said all this, it was also our plan from the start to have a "harcdoce mode" with real permadeath. Unfortunately we did not have the time to work on it, yet. However we have added the hard difficulty in the meantime to give skilled players a bigger challenge and we still plan on implementing the hardcore mode. Most likely without any perks or the ability to just choose a few before each run and no permanent progression (meaning true permadeath). We're really looking forward to this ourselves.
Thank you for your post @ROCKFISH_Andi and the clarity it brings; I'm also glad the team doesn't have to rework the entire Perk system.
Having everything available gives you a lot more tools at your disposal and does make runs easier, I can't argue with that. But from my own experiences I cannot say the challenge has diminished so much that it is no longer fun. I'm a very competitive person and love overcoming great odds, and Everspace's late-game still delivers.
That said, I'm glad there will be the addition of Hardcore mode for an even greater challenge.
I do have a potential suggestion, as well.
This might sound a lot like the plans for Hardcore mode, so it might be a moot point...but I digress.
In the hangar, on the difficulty selection screen, it would be really cool to have a tick box for "No Perks." This way, you could disable all your Perks without losing the progress you've made on your current save. There could be some kind of added bonus to this challenge to incentivize it's use, as well. Maybe it adds an additional 25% Credit bonus through the run, or maybe it gives you nothing but the satisfaction of a challenge.
Just a thought.
It's also possible to speedrun your way through the Sectors and get caught in a bind because the player didn't take the time scavenging for resources.
THAT SAID, I think I may have another solution.
Resources could be scaled depending on what Sector the player is in (similarly to FTL)? This way, you can spend time early to collect resources OR you can risk it to pick up greater number later. Strategy of exploration starts becoming a factor, and you can't get overpowered early (but still reap some nice benefits).
This is particularly true with respect to devices. If you could only possess base energy capacity and regeneration rate, you wouldn't be able to use devices (let alone upgraded ones) without crippling your ability to do anything else. The fully upgraded crafting/resource perks are what make blueprints practical. Crafting is good because it provides incentive to explore, while simultaneously providing flexibility and consistency to the player.
For the most part, I feel that all of the perks are very supportive of the game play design and work to both reward the player and enable pursuit of greater challenges in a well paced manner. By the time you have all the perks for at least one ship, you're almost assured to have become too skilled to play on normal. I consider myself to be very good at this game. Even fully upgraded--I need to pay attention on Hard and not be careless. It only takes one mistake. I like the perk system as is, and would be hesitant to alter it radically.
Having Perks and being able to customize my ship before, during and after each run is apart of the replayability so changing any of that would make it less playable.
I believe at this point and moving foward things only need to be added and upgraded. Too many unnecessary modifications and or any subtractions from the game would ruin the game.
Though, I'm excited to see Hardcore Mode mix up the formula for more traditional roguelike enthusiasts, as well.
Hopefully it will be At Least 3 different modes to choose from.
I don't think so. The game, as it is, is perfectly shaped for a wide range of players (with more or less skill). And they all can have their share of fun. The only thing really missing is the hardcore mode with permadeath, for those players that are so good, that everything else feels easy for them.
Cheers.
All in all, I do like the continued suggestions and the conversations that follow. You guys are rockstars.