Questions: Sandbox, Neural network, Progression, Mod

CarolDanversCarolDanvers Posts: 15Member

Endless or sandbox?
I read in a post of whether the game should be endless or should just end? I've seen in other games where it is endless and that is so much more enjoyable. Players can just have fun defeating the AI and if Mod is in there could add more missions. So the game can continue to be enjoyed for a long time to come with a mission editor?

Perhaps even random generated missions for the editor or even have multiplayer? This could be a really good arcade simulator to play with your friends and enjoy the missions. There will be lots of players making new missions for others to have quick blast in the game.

And for the game itself have it so each mission generated will always be different so there can be many ways of playing it just like in invisible inc? Or other games where each gameplay will be different?

AI difficultly
it would help so much if players can choose what type of AI that like to play with? I like the Star Citizen AI where it can learn! So the AI adapts to your style of play so it has a preset way of attacking but if players succeed in winning then perhaps the AI next time will do something different?

Or else your going to get multiple play through and players doing the same thing to defeat the AI. :( Just go and do A-B-C and you will defeat the AI enemy. I like there to be challenge and surprise and only and Ai that adapts can give this to players. Or else when playing the game again it might just be too easy because you know how to defeat a specific style of AI. :(

An example would be:
A new novice player start playing the game and start to out beat the AI because well he is novice space fighter. So the AI take that into account and adapts to their style of play. The more aggressive the player attack the more aggressive the AI will attack the player.

If players do not like the AI going up in skill then there could be an option to turn it off so everything is at default. But for hardcore fans who want more challenge then having An AI that can fight like them is so needed. And star citizen will give players these crave and I hope everspace can have something similar too! :)

Perhaps everspace can also use the 3rd party AI that star citizen is using to enhance the AI? It has path finding too so that can solve many problems also?

I don't want the AI to keep doing the same thing and I like it to be similar to a human where it makes mistakes and not a perfect bot. So having difficult levels option will make it very mechanical and perfect and you want to fight something more real.

This is the core of the gaming experience where you can have a massive universe to explore but if the AI is just like a bot it just destroys the experience. You want players to play the mission again and again and never really know what the Ai will throw at it. The AI will just go through tactical options and find one to match the player and give players that thrill they seek! Instead of just playing a good mission once and then never playing that mission again because the AI is dead.

You want player to really think not just look at a walkthrough and clone it and use some brains. Not use weapon X at the right timing and then you defeat the AI. I know there will still be some skill but this is for those who want to see some challenge with the Ai after playing the game for a while.

Is this idea too complex to have because its in Alpha coming to beta so still possible?

Again there can always be an option so this type of experience can be turn off for those new to space combat games.

Have a read of this article and I like this to be possible also for everspace having A neural net for its AI.
http://www.engadget.com/2014/06/06/meet-the-computer-thats-learning-to-kill-and-the-man-who-progra/
"Neural networks allow me to create a more dynamic AI that will behave based on what it learned rather than specifically what a designer wants," Robbins explains. "Much like in multiplayer, the AI in Galactic War [the game's single-player campaign] has a ton of flexibility to dynamically react to players and their strategic decisions. The neural networks are why."
So thank you if you can somehow include this so the AI is far more dynamic and learns from what the player does for increase challenge and long term fun for the player.

Comments

  • GiraffasaurGiraffasaur Posts: 1,098Moderator, Space Cat
    edited May 2016
    Endless or Sandbox?
    Based on the discussion in this thread, it sounds like there will be a final confrontation in the game to close out each run; however, since we're in Alpha and DLC ideas have been thrown around, it may be fully possible to adapt an "endless sandbox" mode.

    AI Difficulty
    Adaptable AI is brilliant functionality in a game where simulation and realism reign supreme. Sometimes, it's nice to see this in the occasional arcade experience for higher level players. That said, I don't believe this kind of AI has a place in the world of Everspace.

    Star Citizen makes sense in the massive scale of the game, player interactions and as-real-as-you-can-get simulation they are attempting to pull off. Adaptable AI not only fits in Star Citizen, but it's the only option. Nothing less would work. In the fast-paced roguelike that is Everspace, Adaptable AI might prove to be overkill. With sector-based progression and heavy influence from arcade mechanics, it makes more sense for a difficulty curve implementation instead of adaptable.

    Don't get me wrong; you have great thoughts and great points, and Adaptable AI is an incredible feature...in realistic simulation games. But Everspace is here for a quick get-in, get-out playstyle focusing on arcade action and polished fantasy environments. I don't think someone with 30 minutes to kill wants to get annihilated by adapted AI in the first sector due to their incredible last run a couple days ago.
  • CarolDanversCarolDanvers Posts: 15Member
    It will be very successful Gira if there is an endless sandbox mode! the amount of things players can do! Just look at cities skyline with their modding community! Or when it becomes early access after beta just open a sandbox mode with added content to it and fans will go crazy with it! Trying to see how long they can last in this sandbox mode?

    Was even thinking that a sandbox could be like a strategy game to see if AI or player will last?

    You said get in and get out....
    But if the game wants to last for a few years its AI do need to have some neural network like the planetary game. Or else it would be like those FPS games where you just fight pointless bots with head aim shorts for difficulty. There is a hardcore request also because fans want it so i really think its a good idea in an arcade game! it prolong the experience and will give multiple game play experience and so why an arcade simulation game needs it.

    Its the Ai that holds this game together not the exploration or the perk system. Players want challenging interesting missions just like in RTS games.

    If it was just about quick actions that there wouldn't put so much time into the missions if it all just about shooting. Anyone can make a shooting game but it take skills to make one with lots of replaybility and challenge.

    And why can't an arcade game have different style of play for different space cadets? There are many like me who want to see this in an arcade game. :) As it not just about getting quick results but again playing it many times over seeing different things done in the game.

    Its am ambitious game so why just stick to traditional ideas for the AI? Do something different from other arcade games and make a good AI that learns. Because everyone will enjoy it more then an AI which never learns and keep repeating the same thing for a mission every time you play it.

    I use star citizen because there is no other space game that will want to use AI that learns. It always have been AI that is scripted and that is as far as any developer will do. So if everspace can make the world better then why not! :)



  • GiraffasaurGiraffasaur Posts: 1,098Moderator, Space Cat
    @CarolDanvers IF there is a sandbox mode, adaptable AI would be a great feature. No doubts, there!
  • CarolDanversCarolDanvers Posts: 15Member
    true sandbox but what about the missions too? There are RTS game where each time you play the mission is different? So why not have it as an option in the missions? So once i finish through it i can play it again and still enjoy the impact of the game? Or even have an option so player can pick the missions they want to play again? And just keep playing it again and again and again? Perhaps even export the missions over to edit it to use in sandbox mode?

    I also want it in the story because that is where the fun really is going through the story but also having that challenge and fun. And if players get scared they can turn it off and set it to default so everyone is happy. :) Every skill will be care for in the game so a newbie will like playing the missions and novice players from star citizen will like it too!

    But if it can only be in the sandbox then yes i want it so i can play it! Test it out first before star citizens! Everspace can get players from star citizen to play their game because of the AI! It be the 2nd space game to have these feature! Because no other space game is going to do this currently.

    And if everspace can't have it then it might never ever happen in an arcade space game! So that makes me very sad and depressed if they choice not to put it in? :(

    Its the most Ambitious game so i do hope these ambition can transfer to the AI having neural network. And it does not need to be perfect it can be on going updating to make the best AI for arcade there is!

    Its actually very interesting for an arcade game! If there is no complex micro energy system all your time could be spent just trying to outsmart the enemy. But it never hurts if there is some energy system in the game later on for the hardcore gamers. :)

    I look at other arcade space games and those are ones that you can say not to have adapative AI! But everspace is looking like a semi arcade space simulator. Its feel more real then the other space games that has come out. Like game such as into the stars where is RPG and everspace feels more real then it.

    Other benefits could be that Star citizen fan can take a break from all the controls in that game and come over to ever space for a nice relaxing spin! Where all your concentration is just being outsmarted by clever AI!

    We humans learn fast and those that can play the game 5hours a day or those who stream will beat the game real fast with the current AI. They will have mapped all the styles of play of the AI and it be a quick breeze to the end. So again another reason why investing in a good neural network AI can extend it for longer.

    Everspace is really like an RTS game where your making decisions and using strategy to defeat the enemy. I don't see this game like the new star wars online game? You just start up the game and just go around leveling up. There has been so much detail going into the game of why they can't just stop with An AI that is simple and scripted. Be such a waste for a really nice arcade space game.

    Thanks for the read! :)
  • CarolDanversCarolDanvers Posts: 15Member
    Here is video of star citizen AI vanduul swam. I hope you all enjoy watching it and perhaps just think how cool it will be to have the AI in everspace to have something like this.

    https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13983-AI-Design-In-Vanduul-Swarm

    There are many waves and they just increase in difficulty.
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