Ship's Ultimate Discussion

HazzyDevilHazzyDevil Member Posts: 26
edited March 14 in GENERAL DISCUSSION (ES2)

Ship's Ultimate Discussion

From the latest KS Update #16, we can see that Ultimates will be coming to the game and I for one can't wait to see them in action. I do acknowledge that everything is a work in progress, but I do have some concerns and suggestions and would like to present them.

Problems

So we see in the latest update an Ultimate in action, specifically the static overload Ultimate which gives your ship strong lightning guns that arc pretty far and has great damage, and honestly looks amazing. Here's the issue, the Ultimate itself is exactly that, a strong lightning gun. Assuming the lightning gun makes a return, and given there are rarities in the game, what's gonna ultimately differentiate this Ultimate and a legendary lighting gun which could do exactly the same thing. Do we want Ultimates to be stronger versions of existing weapons? Let's say the lightning gun doesn't return and is restricted to an Ultimate, then is this what we really want?

The next case is the ARC-9000 Ultimate from KS Update #15. Same issue applies here. Why have this as an Ultimate if it already exists as a secondary weapon which also gives the option to have it in multiple rarities with a range of differences in how it plays. But just like the previous example, if this isn't something we can craft and is simply an Ultimate for a heavy class ship, do we want it to be restricted?

Ultimates should be powerful and unique and not simply be a buffed up version of something that already exists.

Suggestions

On the steam page of ES2, there's a screenshot that shows an Ultimate called Quantum Tethering. Now this looks absolutely phenomenal and is worthy of its Ultimate name. You select a single enemy as a Tether. Now all enemies that are close to this Tethered enemy will now be connected. Any damage you deal to this Tethered enemy will also go to all the enemies that are connected to it. The more enemies that are connected, the more damage everyone receives. Not only is this unique, its also strong enough to not be implemented into an existing feature like a device and thus is perfect as an Ultimate and only as an Ultimate.

We also see from KS Update #16 that a heavy class ship could have an Ultimate that makes it's shield reflect incoming attacks. This needs to be taken carefully as this is also an idea that a legendary shield could have as one of its passives granted maybe a certain chance of attacks will be reflected but still. This could work as an Ultimate, but I personally think it'd work as a passive on a shield. Really depends on how much this Ultimate can offer.

Here are some of my suggestions of something that would be worthy of an Ultimate. This takes the idea of the previous example Quantum Tethering, but instead makes the player ship into a Tether. Now any drones or allies nearby will now be connected to you. Each of them will now be insanely buffed. This would be perfect for a gunship build with like 5 different drones helping you. In ES1 drones were pretty easy for the enemies to take down, but this Ultimate would give them the boost they need.

This idea is taken from Borderlands 2. There's a class called The Siren who's 'Ultimate' is to throw an energy ball that will suck in enemies that are close by and damage them whilst providing other things such as the ability to heal yourself. This could work perfectly as an Ultimate in ES2. Imagine a heavy class build where you use this Ultimate to pull everyone into one spot, and then ram them with your ship. Or you could use it to line up the perfect shot for your heavy missiles or an ARC-9000. It also works as the perfect crowd control to help you escape.

What other ideas do you guys think would work as an Ultimate that doesn't simply replace an existing mechanic nor be a buffed version of an existing weapon?

Conclusion

Ultimates need to live up to their name. They need to be strong, feel unique and be fun. They shouldn't be a stronger version of things that already exist. They shouldn't be weak enough that would make us see their use as a passive in the best of equipment (legendary rarity). They shouldn't restrict something to being an Ultimate if we had the ability to use them/craft them in ES1. Thanks for reading.


Comments

  • ROCKFISH_HCKROCKFISH_HCK Moderator Posts: 579
    Thank you for the detailed feedback. Be sure that if we decided to go with the lightning gun and Arc-9000 as Ultimates they would not appear as weapons in the game anymore.
    But keep the ideas coming, please.
  • matsumurimatsumuri Common Alpha Backer ES1, Customer Posts: 4
    I think I agree with most of what you said here Hazzy. I do however disagree with your statement that ultimates should not be a stronger version of things that already exist.
    I am ok with Ultimates being a stronger version of something else. The lightning gun is actually the perfect example. I love the idea of a themed ship. So Imagine you are flying with the lightning gun and maybe EMPs and your Ultimate is a stronger version of that lightning that also has an EMP effect applied to all the ships that are taking the splash damage. This may be a bad idea but my point is I would be ok to have an ultimate the is a more powerful version of the stuff I am already doing.
    "oh you like my lightning gun, give me a second and see what you think of this..." kind of thing.

    I also don't think that just because something was able to be crafted in the first game should not automatically preclude it from being an ultimate in the second. In my opinion an arc-9000 is a perfect candidate for becoming an ultimate.
  • HazzyDevilHazzyDevil Member Posts: 26
    edited March 14
    matsumuri said:

    I think I agree with most of what you said here Hazzy. I do however disagree with your statement that ultimates should not be a stronger version of things that already exist.
    I am ok with Ultimates being a stronger version of something else. The lightning gun is actually the perfect example. I love the idea of a themed ship. So Imagine you are flying with the lightning gun and maybe EMPs and your Ultimate is a stronger version of that lightning that also has an EMP effect applied to all the ships that are taking the splash damage. This may be a bad idea but my point is I would be ok to have an ultimate the is a more powerful version of the stuff I am already doing.
    "oh you like my lightning gun, give me a second and see what you think of this..." kind of thing.

    I also don't think that just because something was able to be crafted in the first game should not automatically preclude it from being an ultimate in the second. In my opinion an arc-9000 is a perfect candidate for becoming an ultimate.

    I guess the ARC-9000 being an ultimate does make sense given it is the ultimate secondary weapon. But I do think that going down this route of making an ultimate a stronger version of something that already exists will mean that some ships will have amazing unique ultimates whilst others will simply have stronger versions of things that already exist. I do like the idea of going with a theme of the ship, but there are many more ways to go about doing it. For example if the sentinel is about lightning guns, emp blasts then perhaps make an ultimate that shocks the whole sector you are in for a small period of time, maybe a bonus damage to lightning weapons that damage stunned enemies from the ultimate. Also I wonder if elemental damage will be a thing or not. I mean we have kinetic and energy but this could be expanded by so much.

    We could have:
    - Kinetic (Amour, Hull)
    - Energy (Shield, Hull)
    - Lightning (Paralyses, Disables components)
    - Corrosive (Pierces through shield and deteriorates armor)
    - Radiation (Pierces through armor and deteriorates Hull)
    - Burn (Overheats components)
    - Freeze (Slows movement)

    This is just a rough idea and a lot of those effects probs need to be re-arranged/refined/redefined.
  • HazzyDevilHazzyDevil Member Posts: 26
    I've got another idea for an ultimate, this takes inspiration from Ratchet Gladiator/Deadlocked. There's a weapon called The Harbinger which would shoot missiles that would "paint the ground with targeting lasers, after which orbital ion cannons will fire" - wiki. This can be seen in action here .

    I could see this being implemented as an ultimate (but to a lesser degree to avoid being overpowered and causing issues on lower-end hardware). A heavy class ship could activate this ultimate and mark either an area or specific units and after a couple of seconds massive orbital cannons could fire at them. This orbital weapon can either be somewhere in the vicinity or not be shown at all for simplicity purposes.

    I guess if its not implemented as an ultimate, it could act as a mission specific weapon where you are required to build and use this to destroy something much bigger (something along the lines of the plasma array from gof2 supernova dlc). This would work especially well if you were to help make this weapon and have it stay above a planets atmosphere and whilst you are in the planet's atmosphere, you can activate this weapon.
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