Consumables : not so much fun ?

DeathpactDeathpact Member Posts: 29
Hello everyone !

So here they come as a swarm : fighters, drones and even a corvette... As times slows down they start to fall and burn. I launch several missiles to reduce their number faster... i realise my shield is down... i press TAB. the games is PAUSED. I drop one of my Nano injectors to craft a Damage inhibitor and use it. TAB ... where was that fighter i was chasing just before ? Crrrrrr gotcha, NEXT ! Crrrr pfff No more energy. . TAB again. Drop that Nano injector again. Craft an energy injector tab again, let's fight. (until i need to craft something else.)

I hope my example speaks for itself. Maybe i am the only one to play like that but i would doubt it. I tend to keep as many nano injectors as i can make early because they are what will make me go further in the game. Also, even if i can switch weapons / devices and consumables from my mouse buttons, i find it difficult to do so and to use them mid fight. I do it with devices, but since i need to craft the consumables anyway, i use them from the TAB screen.

Everspace is an Action Space shooter. (I think) and pausing the game for gameplay elements is breaking the rythm of the game and eventually removing some fun and pleasure too.
I truly believe a Deep reflexion should be given to this topic so the player doesn't have to chose between immersive action and efficient use of Bonuses.


  • GiraffasaurGiraffasaur Administrator, Moderator, Space Cat Posts: 1,110
    edited April 2017
    I somewhat share the same sentiment, but also disagree at the same time. Allow me to explain.

    I love action games in how they never take you away from the experience. The immersion can be broken when you dive into a menu to find that one thing...yet, the difference between a simple game and a rich, complex experience lie in the depth of it's menus.

    Everspace is a streamlined action arcade shooter paired with delicate details, giving the player a vast assortment of tools at their disposal. So many that having a reprieve from all that action (via going to the menu to pause) is a necessary feature.

    Having the ability to control exactly what is in your equipment at all times is a must-have tool for a game like Everspace. Conversely, removing any ability to pause at all in a game that can take anywhere between 1 hour and 3 hours (depending on a player's pacing) can be tedious and tiring.

    Another point: If the menu didn't pause when you went into it, it would demand learning where everything was accessed from quickly, thus adding stress to the player (and frustration for when they miscllick and build the wrong item, get the wrong upgrade or even get destroyed while trying to craft) instead of crisp, decisive action to enhance their run.

    Looking at the tab screen as a whole, I see it as a necessary feature more than an immersion-breaking experience...but that's just me.

    I'm curious if others have thoughts on this as well.
  • DeathpactDeathpact Member Posts: 29
    edited April 2017
    I don't mind the tab screen per se. And i never meant there should be no possibility to pause the game.
    I just feel there are some mechanics in the game that lead you to unnecessary and numerous uses of the tab screen.
    I mean, I just finished my first successful run and at the end of it i could craft more than 100 energy injector.
    I don't think energy is a good mechanic. Running out of energy is not so much fun and even less so when you don't really need to cope with it or prevent it. All you need to do is go to the tab screen, drop a consumable and then craft an injector. So energy management is not really a tactical issue, it is just a tedious crafting action you need to be doing and you need to stop you space fighting fun for that.

    They could replace energy with ammunition and Fuel. Fuel could be used for space jumps AND Boosting. Ammunitions could be crafted or looted and Perks could give you bigger tanks for them.

    Or they can also remove energy injectors so we need to build a sustainable ship... i think if you add a mechanic to a game i think it needs to add to the fun of it, not the opposite.
  • GiraffasaurGiraffasaur Administrator, Moderator, Space Cat Posts: 1,110
    edited April 2017
    Hmmmm...interesting ideas!

    I have to say, I'm a huge fan of the current energy management. Especially in the early game when the player doesn't have all those extra Energy Perks. This adds a powerful awareness between resources and actions, which (when taken for granted) can hinder a player significantly or (when utilized) create immense satisfaction of accomplishment.

    The player isn't allowed to constantly fire or boost, and at the start of any run (whether early-game or late-game) it is certainly not possible to craft 100 energy injectors. The player must utilize what limited resources they have. And if by the end of the run enough resources have been accrued to craft all those energy injectors, who is to say that wasn't earned?

    While I'm not a fan of ammunition coming into the game of Everspace, I can say that reloading is appealing. That said, it's already in the energy. The difference being that it doesn't "reload" instantly, but over time. This creates an immediate player-ship relationship regarding the cost of overusing what doesn't need used, guiding the player to more skillful allocations and actions.

    Creating multiple resources and separating out energy into two pools of management (ammo, boost fuel) seems to make the game far more complex than need be, in my opinion. In fact, this type of change would feed the initial problem: Going to a pause menu, managing a resource accordingly, then returning to the game. Neither sound like mechanics that bring fun into the mix, but sound more like additional tedious work.

    In energy injectors were REQUIRED, I would agree that energy wasn't a fun mechanic. But as it is, those injectors are nice little bonuses if you can craft them, freeing up the ability to perform some amazing feats. Otherwise, the player must deduce what's best to use their energy for: combat or utility.

    In my last run, my ship met it's unfortunate demise because I selfishly pursued Mark IIIs of as many Devices possible, and it sucked my energy dry. This wasn't the game set out against me, making an unfun experience. No, this situation was of my own doing: my pride, my greed...and I was destroyed for not being tactical about my energy.

    Here's the last area of that run. Notice how much energy I'm passively using, especially at later parts of the video.

  • DeathpactDeathpact Member Posts: 29
    Well I tend to be an optimizer. And since there is a cheap way of making up for beeing greedy with the energy usage i'll take it. That beeing said my craft was only half of the perks for energy capacity so now fully upgraded i might not need as much tabing for energy
  • troopitroopi Member Posts: 83
    I consider it part of the game. I myself tend to use the TAB screen only when I'm not in combat, or when I need an emergency module repair. It's a kind of Role Play I do. I've got nothing against removing the pause from the tab menu also, it would make the game more intense. Still, the game needs a pause button anywhere, because there's always something a player got to do at the wrong time, in the wrong place. ;)
  • ForavenForaven Member Posts: 121
    I don't like the current energy system. I don't mind running out of energy if i use my guns or boost too much, but reducing energy capacity whenever i upgrade any of my devices removes any enjoyment of using more powerful stuff. Because of this mechanic i often keep lower tier weapons and devices just to not have to deal with injecting energy all the time. Even then i do use injectors, just not as much...
  • Mr. MagniloquentMr. Magniloquent Member Posts: 20
    I think that consuming maximum energy for passive effects is a fair trade off. It makes the choices real, rather than an automatic, initial cost only investment. If this cost were not incurred, it would heavily favor certain play styles.

    The craft on demand feels a That I can stop the action and make whatever I need in the heat and severity of any moment doesn't feel correct. I think it is important for the craft menu to be paused, but I do think it would be good if a kind of creation delay, or energy use was incorporated into the crafting. What I do think would be important, is to improve keying/cycling access to items and devices. Right now on PC, it feels like the US is gimped to accommodate for a controller.

    I definitely feel that diversifying resource types is a mistake. Energy and energy alone is adequate to deliver the desired restraints and effects.

    PS: You don't shake and bake enough. It's important to keep your movements erratic in combat--particularly while not using boost.
  • troopitroopi Member Posts: 83
    If the action of crafting incurred a cooldown to weapons' fire, and a shield reset, then the player wouldn't be so keen on using it during combat.
  • GiraffasaurGiraffasaur Administrator, Moderator, Space Cat Posts: 1,110
    edited April 2017

    I think it is important for the craft menu to be paused, but I do think it would be good if a kind of creation delay, or energy use was incorporated into the crafting.

    A creation delay sounds like it could be effective in theory, but I would be concerned a player would TAB, create item, return to game and wait X seconds to TAB, create item, return to game and wait X seconds, repeat. It's a strong notion for sure, but the effect might further the interaction with the menu (which is something I think we can all agree we'd like to avoid).

    Still, it seems it would be useful for balance on a general level, so it's really difficult to say what's best. Furthermore, I don't think the game is hindered with it's current creation system in place, but I like the ideas of seeing what we can do to it from here.

    But energy for creating...hmmm. I quite like that. Every time something was crafted, it cost 5-10 energy... This would promote crafting outside of combat, for sure.
    troopi said:

    If the action of crafting incurred a cooldown to weapons' fire, and a shield reset, then the player wouldn't be so keen on using it during combat.

    I like the idea of a cooldown on the weapons, but the shield reset seems a bit harsh.
  • troopitroopi Member Posts: 83
    Indeed, a cooldown to weapons' fire would probably be enough. Players would abuse the TAB menu only in distress, not trying to sustain a suppressive fire
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