Thoughts on: Ships, final mission, ship builds

exwhyzeeexwhyzee Member Posts: 19
Okay, so I finished my run through this game on hard. No hardcore modes or anything like that; I'm just a gamer working full-time and likes a bit of a challenge when I knock off work.

First of all, what I was using:

Interceptor

Coil Gun 2
Flak Cannon 2
Beam Laser 2
[All Rate of Fire 2]

Heavy Missiles
Occasional Arc.

Sub-Routine: Devastator
Sub-Routine: Daredevil
Weapon Overdrive 3
Front Shield Generator
Adaptive Armour 3

Damage Limiter 2-3
Damage Boost 2-3
Scanning Probe
Occasional Nano Kit

This build, you don't consume weapon energy which means you can spam attacks. While you don't have a shield, the frontal shield handles that load. Face enemy, no damage. Since the Interceptor is not the Gunship, you can easily dodge missiles. The only problem is being swarmed. But I'm sure I don't need to tell you all how to fight; survival isn't an issue when you're the best alpha striker possible. As a point of interest, it seems like the damage bonuses also apply to secondary fire. I never got the Arc blueprint so I never had a chance to experiment on potential one-shots, but Elite craft were always one shot or barely surviving off one Heavy Missile, so there's that. The amount of fire you're laying down is incredible. Resource management is less of an issue than Gunship as a whole, however nano management is about the same.

Now you know what I was using, I will say this: This game is great. With this build I felt powerful where I needed to be and weak when I was intended on being weak. When Interceptors came, I either fought them and fled or just jumped. Because the Warships that followed absolutely decimated me. I got to leaving whenever I saw the Interceptors arrive at the later levels because the reality of a significant loss in progress would grow. Before I would sit in the sweet spot and take out the turret hardpoints at my leisure, but without being tanky enough to withstand concentrated fire and without a cloak, there wasn't any point in making a stand to make it work. Because it would be work, and not much fun. So with no rewards for confronting a threat, as I said: I Brave Sir Robin-ed out of there.

There were a few glitches. Sometimes something would be shooting me and nothing would be present on the map. It would literally be the void taking pot-shots at me. I also found clipping issues with drops. Once from a crate I got knocked into, and another time at a Trader, when I topped up my missiles but the leftovers clipped into me, bashing me against the trader until I blew up.

Balance, everything seemed fine. My playstyle didn't allow for much variation beyond choosing when and where to fight. So no experiments with Mainframes. Something interesting: Stasis Missiles affect Warships (the debuff effect affects/ shows up on the entire ship). But they don't disable the turrets. So they're still pointless.

The weapon balance itself seems fine due to availability however there are obvious winners overall. Gatling Guns are alright, but due to poor tracking you can have a rough time hitting your target, which makes them worse than the Coil Guns. Pulse suffers from the same issues as Gatling Guns. Fusions are too short range to be worthwhile, and the same with Scatters - you aren't controlling your fight by getting in close, and it is SO easy to get swarmed and pinned by a Webber or disoriented by Scan Drone blinds. Due to optimal range in engagements defined by the age-old tactical sagacity of "Don't get tackled by the football team", nobody is really making use of these other weapon types beyond niche uses. I used Coil Guns and Beam Lasers for opening crates and removing mines, respectively, due to not needing gun energy for fights. A way to help compensate for this, or offer an alternative for a fix, would be to implement a Tracking Perk that broadens the reticle the weapon tracks its target at. If you make this into a mod, then it won't be used as the player will simply defer to weapons that are superior due to not needing to waste a mod slot on. As a point of interest, there seems to be a cap on RoF, which makes Crit all the more desirable. However due to the low rate of crit, and due to the dps being far better with RoF mods on a gun like Flak Cannon, it's merely something I mentioned due to not seeing any discernible difference between the RoF of a RoF2-modded Coil Gun before and after Weapon Overload 3 was used. I think Shield and Hull damage needs to be consolidated into the one mod. This means players can choose raw % boost over RoF. I also think Range should be buffed a little. Not enough to make a Beam Cannon 1 infinite kite build, but if that became a thing I honestly wouldn't be opposed to it. It wouldn't be too viable for too many people beyond the inhumanly patient. Velocity is a waste of a mod slot. If your weapon needs velocity, such as the Gatling or Pulse, then you'll simply drop those weapons for something better. I get velocity is a thing that can be altered, but there is just no single reason anybody would choose this over one of the other options. Crit needs a buff. By about 3 points per tier. This would make running the RNG roulette on weapons viable, and move crit from being a dump stat into something you might care about factoring into a build. Give Beams crit option. And RoF option. It seems silly that they don't benefit from RoF with their ticks of damage, or indeed crit for that matter.

Part 1 of 2.

Comments

  • exwhyzeeexwhyzee Member Posts: 19
    Part 2 of 2.



    Gunships are woeful. It would be incredibly difficult to beat the last mission if what I saw was a static representation of what everybody else had to deal with. That blackhole placement is bonkers. There is nothing good about this ship. Yes, it is tanky - but ALL damage needs to be repaired by resources (nanos) which the player needs to find. No damage mitigation options like the Interceptor has even sans shield build. No alternative means of mitigation like the cloak found on the Scout. The turret is a gimmick because it consumes energy to use, runs for a limited amount of time, and requires a recharge to come back. And it's damage is NOT comparable if you're picking ships and builds based off raw damage potential. The other ships have better options for a safer style of play. The Interceptor can boost out of a black hole pull. The Gunship can not. The Gunship requires you use an active Device slot to have the Energized Boost ready to go just in case. And as a general rule, use the Propulsion Sub-Routine. That's definitely one and potentially two slots this ship NEEDS to use for other things in order to be a viable choice. IF the Gunship had a directional shield that covered 33-50% of the ship while the turret was active, then yeah it would be a lot better. But that mobility needs to be fixed. Why not make Adaptive Armour a Gunship exclusive, and have it regen 1% of the hull per minute out of combat per tier on top of it's passive mitigation? And have it not fix broken systems like Life support - have the player spend their nanos on a Gunship repairing those issues and hull in a pinch, not needing to consistently use it after every single engagement due to being a sponge in a game about efficient resource management. And about drones - Combat Drones need to be buffed with a Gunship exclusive perk. Otherwise they die too easily at the later levels. In fact, all the drones do. They're not the most efficient option. Between having to manage Drones as part of the resources on top of heavy weaponry and other upgrades, Gunship is a really poor design. I think they should be based more off the Cruisers - give them shields and those bubble guns the later ones have. And somehow fix the black hole auto-die issue. Then you have a good competitive ship. If it's going to be slow, at least give it options so it isn't outright murdered by a swarm or left having to choose between limping to the next skirmish or using resources to heal up. And maybe also give us the turrets the Warships have too. ANYTHING that gives it an edge to keep it comparable to the insanity the Interceptor is capable of, or the teleport cloaking madness the Scout can do.

    Finally, this is what I'm talking about with the final mission:




    A Gunship is going to have a dreary time compared to the other ships to handle that. And an Energized Booster is a MUST for a Gunship for that. That Dark Matter spot should give you an idea of the range and scale this all is. When you're hacking at that point, you're being pulled, so you're in a constant battle to maintain control. Gunship can only manage this with Energized Booster, and has no options for retrying by boosting out of the pull if something goes wrong, meaning you have to pull off a successful hack AND get out of there since the black hole obviously doesn't fade when the player is successful.

    I did enjoy this game, truly. I hope any criticism I've given here is seen as constructive and doesn't give the impression I didn't enjoy myself.

    Thanks,
    exwhyzee
  • NenacuNenacu Customer, Collector Beta Backer ES1 Posts: 69
    Thank you for the feedback @exwhyzee !

    I must say, you aren't expressing anything that those of us that have had quite a bit of time in the ships haven't been saying. Especially when it comes to the Gunship. Rest assured that Rockfish has heard our comments and are looking into ways to properly balance the Gunship to be in line with the other two. In all honesty, I still find the Scout to be the strongest of the three ships, simply due to loadout options, maneuverability, and alternate ways to get out of combat that the Interceptor and Gunship don't have.

    As to the topic of the (current) final mission, that black hole is always in the same position. I agree with you that the energized boost is absolutely necessary in order to escape the pull entirely. There have been some solutions to black holes for the Gunship proposed ranging from mitigating the gravitational pull to an idea to have resource collection drones. There has been no method confirmed by Rockfish just yet, but we have been heard.

    Welcome to the talkative part of the community, and I do hope to see more of you and your ideas for improving the game around here.

    Cheers!
    -Nenacu
  • GiraffasaurGiraffasaur Administrator, Moderator, Space Cat Posts: 1,110
    edited January 2017
    Your thoughts are greatly appreciated @exwhyzee :smiley:

    Also wanted to mention that the Sub-Routines are changing a bit in the next patch (which is soon, by the way) so instead of being able to make Coil Guns the clearly superior weapon, the player will need to discern a bit more based on ENERGY MANAGEMENT, which I didn't see you comment towards in your review.

    Sometimes, early game situations require a careful conservation of energy, so it's dangerous using weapons that drain quickly (like the Coil Gun, for instance). Gatlings and Pulse lasers are desirable weapons in these scenarios, simply because they can be used longer and still provide adequate damage output (though need to be alternated based on hitting shields or hull of course). Essentially, it's making the decision to have more tedious combat for more overall energy. And I'm willing to make that trade if it means I get an extra 3 seconds of boosting or laying down fire, especially when I have little for hull/shield points.

    The beam lasers, due to instantly hitting the marked location at a steady rate of damage, are incredibly powerful weapons. Without worrying about leading, low damage or short range, these weapons make sense to cost a decent amount of energy and not receive crit chance. Having critical hit tied to these weapons would make beams the most used weapon in the game (if they aren't already), and I think the balance of the game would be disrupted on this change alone.

    Also know that the Gunship is receiving some pretty decent buffs in that upcoming patch I mentioned, as well. Hope you'll stick around to check it out, scheduled to drop near the end of this month.

    Again, thank you for your feedback; hope to hear more of your thoughts on the ideas floating around the forums!

    Giraffasaur
  • NenacuNenacu Customer, Collector Beta Backer ES1 Posts: 69
    @Giraffasaur That's fantastic news to hear! I look forward to the changes in sub-routines and what that can mean for my future runs. Indeed, getting coil gun early in a run on the Interceptor or the Scout almost feels like locking in the first four sectors or so, even on hard with the way I typically play. Really looking forward to the Gunship pass as well. Any idea at all how soon we can expect the update? I try to watch Everspace news like a hawk, but I've been busy with other things for the last couple weeks.
  • GiraffasaurGiraffasaur Administrator, Moderator, Space Cat Posts: 1,110
    edited January 2017
    @Nenacu , it should be before the end of this month is all goes according to plans.

    The Sub-Routines are going to become selectable Enhancements (from the Perk menu if I understand it correctly), so you'd decide if you want your entire run to be Daredevil, Devastator, etc. This way, the player is locked in and cannot change during the course but also gains those additional Device slots that would have otherwise been occupied.

    I'm really excited for this because it means each successive run will be more distinguished from the last at the player's discretion. It's a powerful form of customization to the game that I think Everspace needs, which is why I'm so thrilled about it.

    I don't recall if it was mentioned regarding this upcoming patch or not but we might be seeing Glyphs here pretty soon, too.

    All in all, more customization, Gunship buffs to get it up to standards with the Interceptor and Scout, and a slew of new assets as well! The end of this month is looking pretty glorious. :smiley:
  • NenacuNenacu Customer, Collector Beta Backer ES1 Posts: 69
    @Giraffasaur Oooh! Now that might just make Dare/Dev even more devastating. Sure, you have to play very carefully initially, but if you can get proper equipment, you should be good to go. Getting the device slots typically used for those modules should also free up a lot of power for the Gunship as well.

    Seeing Glyphs coming in the next update would be fantastic, but if it doesn't come I won't be disappointed. You know how I like to play with the new toys at patch day after all. :smile:
  • exwhyzeeexwhyzee Member Posts: 19
    Hi, thanks so much for the feedback guys.

    Daredevil negates energy use on weapons in it's present state, and Weapon Overload mitigates a percentile of the energy used up to 50% on 3, as I recall. As i was using Daredevil, I had no energy drain on guns. I don't think this should be changed for the next patch, as a 25% increase in damage for the trade-off of no shields gameplay isn't worth it without the additional bonus of no energy drain for guns.

    I can appreciate the Scout a lot, but Weapon Overload in conjunction with Frontal Shield was just too good for my playstyle.

    So the gameplay is shifting drastically? It sounds like the Device slot is being relegated to only actives. Is this accurate?
  • GiraffasaurGiraffasaur Administrator, Moderator, Space Cat Posts: 1,110
    edited January 2017
    exwhyzee said:

    So the gameplay is shifting drastically? It sounds like the Device slot is being relegated to only actives. Is this accurate?

    The developers indicated the Sub-Routine Devices (Propulsion, Jump Drive, Devastator and Daredevil) are being changed into selectable Perks, known as Enhancements. They may be altering only certain ones or all of them. But from what we know, all other Devices (whether passive or active) will remain the same. It's possible we may see new Devices added in the next patch as well, but the main features of the upcoming patch seem to be addressing the weaknesses of the Gunship and pre-run setup.
  • NenacuNenacu Customer, Collector Beta Backer ES1 Posts: 69
    @exwhyzee I can understand why you wouldn't want to use Daredevil, but when you weight it like this, it's almost the best way to make runs.

    With the Interceptor and the Scout, Daredevil completely negates power cost for weapons, so things like the Coil Gun II and the Shock Rifle I can be used without any thought to conserving power. This lets you use precious power on things like teleportation, cloak, or FSG. Stack Devastator on top of that, which adds a substantial amount of damage for decreased recharge time, and you've got weapons that burn down just about anything before they become an issue. If you use Weapon Overload on top of THAT, then you have enough power to destroy almost anything, especially if you're throwing out ARCs. It's all in how you work the synergy of the devices really.
  • exwhyzeeexwhyzee Member Posts: 19
    edited January 2017
    I never said I didn't want to use Daredevil. In fact it was an integral part of my build. I shared what I was using in my first post - it's there.
  • NenacuNenacu Customer, Collector Beta Backer ES1 Posts: 69
    So you did! I blame post new-job brain for my mistake. :tired_face:
  • exwhyzeeexwhyzee Member Posts: 19
    That's all good mate. My last post on the Daredevil is probably what threw you - I mean to say if they change the Daredevil by removing the 0 weapon drain part of the Device, then it loses all of it's appeal. 25% damage increase for no shields trade-off isn't worth it. Keep your shields, sit on Devastator, and put on an energy extender Device and plan around spike dps with consumables. I'm just saying, you get Daredevil for the weapon energy drain removal, not the damage spike. Negating the need to monitor weapon drain on your energy is a massive thing.

    I think we need a new ship and tether mechanic. Like any ship caught in the aoe which could be similar to the black hole pull, becomes mind controlled, similar to the Mainframe Device. Throw in a cap for two or three enslaved ships/ drones over a period of time. Or have a ship with a unique that drains shields in an aoe. This means you now have a ship that is designed for the weapons that are short range, that can make use of them properly, and won't die - even excels- in the swarm rushes.

    Even go Grey Goo and have an additional unique that drains small amounts of hp from a ship close by. Save on nanos.

    There's your vamp and control ships.

    Also, this is a serious concern I have: Will there be support for different controller types? I'm using the Xbox elite at the moment, and I'm not able to use it to the fullest of its ability, as I can't bind or re-arrange key bindings. It would be so nice to have roll and even lock or cycle targets to different options.
  • GiraffasaurGiraffasaur Administrator, Moderator, Space Cat Posts: 1,110
    edited January 2017
    exwhyzee said:

    I'm just saying, you get Daredevil for the weapon energy drain removal, not the damage spike. Negating the need to monitor weapon drain on your energy is a massive thing.

    Indeed it is a massive boost, and is a solid choice in almost all of my runs. So much so that energy management feels more like a gimmick than a mechanism...

    In fact, I'd argue that the Daredevil balancing isn't quite there. Perhaps it should reduce Weapon energy consumption by 80% instead of 100%, or perhaps it shouldn't grant a damage boost due to the endless amount of energy.

    Though I'm getting ahead of myself. Instead of dissecting it as a Device, I think I should wait and see what happens with it's implementation as an Enhancement.
  • exwhyzeeexwhyzee Member Posts: 19
    I was going to suggest a nerf like that, but what would be the point? It's a single player rogue-like game that has you die as early and often as Dark Souls. Daredevil has no benefit to any new player, and it really only shines when put in the hands of someone who is familiar with how the enemies will fight, and who has adjusted their ship build to accommodate for the no shields part of it. And no shields IS a massive drawback. However if this drain mechanic gets taken out, then it removes the reason to use Daredevil, even as a low drain enhancement. Because they're still taking away your shields. It's a game-changing dynamic that cuts both ways.

    If that drain gets removed, then critcoil Devastator build on interceptors will probably takeover as highest dps potential. At least, that's where I'll be heading.
  • GiraffasaurGiraffasaur Administrator, Moderator, Space Cat Posts: 1,110
    exwhyzee said:

    If that drain gets removed, then critcoil Devastator build on interceptors will probably takeover as highest dps potential.

    It seems like it would be if they remained Sub-Routines. But we'll have to see how it plays a part of the experience as Enhancements rather than Devices. Who knows, maybe some numbers will get tweaked in the transition over.

    Goodness, I can't wait for the end of this month.
  • WjndWalk3rWjndWalk3r Member Posts: 13
    edited March 2017
    exwhyzee said:

    Part 2 of 2.
    And about drones - Combat Drones need to be buffed with a Gunship exclusive perk. Otherwise they die too easily at the later levels. In fact, all the drones do. They're not the most efficient option. Between having to manage Drones as part of the resources on top of heavy weaponry and other upgrades, Gunship is a really poor design.

    I'm totally agree with you about the gunship and drones. I was feel so great when first time playing with drones at low sector but when come to later sector, i just use them to decoy when being suround by swarm of enemy. Maybe the gunship should have an Carrier variation like have more drones available around and can switch between drones formation like defense around gunship or focus on lock-on target, not just agressive go kamikaze and maybe create not neccesary battle :D

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